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Post by Sydd on Dec 26, 2006 2:02:53 GMT -5
THIS BOARD WAS CREATED AS A KINDA FREE-FOR-ALL. ITS ABOUT SHARING IDEAS AND OPINIONS ABOUT OUR PROBLEM HERE IN THE WASHINGTON DC AREA. PLEASE, ONLY REAL, HONEST, WORKING POSTS.
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Post by concernedaamember on Dec 26, 2006 17:28:49 GMT -5
That which is fed and unconfronted, grows. Always. Be it based in positivity or negativity. There are many examples to be found. Take The Midtown Group (MG), for instance. Clearly, they are a destructive force for AA. yet, what does anyone do? They use up Newcomers like they were worthless. Need a case in point? Ok. Here you go.. There are individuals that have formed a organization, which call themselves "Love and Service" (LS). They have every intention of bringing the MG's negative influence, to light, for all of the world to see, as well as help the MG's conditioned members receive psychological help, as they attempt to leave the MTG. The MG, feeling the threat of exposure, that could limit their consumption of Newcomers, decided to fight back by setting up the Public Relations Chair Person of LS with a false charge. The MG not only used a woman to file false "stalking / harassment" charges on this Trusted Servant, they also manipulated (presured) more than 30 of their impressionable Newcomers, to lie in a Court of Law, to back up said charges. What the MG didn't count on was that what manipulative practices that work in AA meetings and on its broken fellowship, does not work, by any stretch of the imagination, in a Court of Law. Some of these Newcomers, that were being sacrificed in this legal sham, began realizing this, by the end of the first court session and decided to run away and not be charged with slander, and for lying in a Court of Law, in the second session (because they were losing the case by a landslide). And why do I use the word, sacrificed? Because the AA program is such that the only known way to be relieved of Alcoholism, is to establish and maintain a growing level of spiritual conditioning. Pushing Newcomers to lie in Court, is going against that spiritual conditioning, and the MG long timers knew this, and cared not. These MG long timers would easily use up and throw away more than 30 of their Newcomers because they know d**n well that they will replentish their number, within a short period of time, due to thier effective and well oiled outreach machine. Need an example of that as well? Wait a minute. No less than two of them will be at your meeting, outreaching for their new play and for more Newcomers, this Holiday Season :-) By the second Court session, a typically weak willed MG (well over 21 year old) member, was called up to the stand, by a Judge who knew of the MG very well and began asking him questions, concerning the sexual exploitation of seriously under age Newcomers. This typically weak willed member began describing how the leader of this Cult, relieved him of his then 14 year old girlfriend, and began a sexual relationship with her until he tired of her, at the ripe old age of 17. Yeah... For obvious reasons, the case was dropped, the Newcomers were clearly used and the Court system has direct evidence that the MG and its self imposed leader, is using children as sexual outlets for their emotionally and spiritually sick fatherly long timers, and the Court system has every intention of using said information to file child molestation charges on some of these MG long timers as well its self imposed leader. Maybe this will bring their crimes to the light of day for some of us here that are too afraid to speak up and stand for what is right? Now, here's my question... How is the general AA community going to respond to this clear and present elephant, that is tearing its house down? How long is it going to let this Cult (AKA the Q. Group) disguised as a set AA groups (at least 18 controlled AA meetings) wear down the integrity of the AA program, before they take a stand and stop this madness!? This is where all of us, one and all, needs to stand up for that which is meant to save lives and not exploit them, and shout out, that this Cult stops here and now. That we of AA want them to stop running WAIA and its committies, stop manning the AA phones, stop rewriting the Where and When's to only have themselves as "Young Peoples Meetings" and to get the f**k out of the Institutions, where they actually recruit many of their more weaker willed members! Seriously now people, it's way past time to wake up and offer them the credit that they so rightfully deserve. It's time to take responsibility for our own inactions, for because of them, the MG has thrived, like a virus. We need to wake up and stop feeding this virus by our inactions and stop them from hurting another Newcomer, right now.
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Post by dixierebel on May 8, 2007 12:46:37 GMT -5
I just received the information on this group today. It is very upsetting but yet not surprising to hear about. 13 stepping, control, and other predatory actions have been around for a long time. This is the first time that I have heard of a whole group doing it. It is not as hard to stop an individual's actions, but a whole group! All AA members have a duty to warn newcomers about this group. The local Intergroup or Central Office has the responibility to address this problem. Take them out of the meeting schedule. The DCM of the district also has the obligation to have them removed. Letters by concerned AA members can be sent to area institutions and treatment centers exposing this group. If this is done and documented, although I am not an attorney, I believe that family members and law enforcement could bring legal action against the institution that continues to allow this group to recruit their clients. The threat of law suits and legal action will force them out of these places. Also any factual knowlege of statutory rape which is what sex with a minor is should be reported to law enforcement, and family members. Is this excessive action? Not if is saves these young men and women from being prayed on. I just celebrated my 20th anniversary in this program and can and will do whatever it takes to make this program remain what our founders meant it to be and carry the message to the still suffering alcoholic. It states in the phamplet "Problems Other than Alcohol" that sobriety-freedom from alcohol is- through the teaching and practice of the Twelve Steps is the sole purpose of an AA group. No where in the Big Book , Twelve & Twelve or any other AA literature does it say that predatory sex is necessary or condoned.
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Post by BB Marc on May 8, 2007 14:16:56 GMT -5
How can I help get someone out of a cult? we have adressed publicly that a midtown is a cult...now instead of attacking the members of that cult, shouldn't we make ourselves accesable to people who want to defect. I am not arrogent enought to believe that I know how to help someone who is recovering from cult membership, but I do know that there are professional resorces avalible, and I would like to know where those resorces are so that I can direct people to them when they need to. if we approch midtown with intolerance and hatered, then we stringthen their solidarity. if we approch them with open arms, letting them know that we undersand that they are suffering, and they can come to us for help, then their cult will fall. I have seen many "cults of personality" in AA, (the clarinets, the west coasters, the back to basics) I have even been involved in a few of them, but midtown is the first one I have seen actually take the shape of an actuall cult and I have no idea how to help people make the transision from midtown to actuall AA. but if we just tell them that "all you need to do is leave the group" then we are giving them no options. they work with the cult, they live with the cult, everything they do is with the cult, what can we offer defectors to transision them into real life? the long timers don't know how to be sober outside of midtown, and they have a real fear that if they leave they may get drunk because they have not been given the same tools of recovery that I have, their tools consist of the cult.
that is just some thoughts, I hope that people have answers.
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Post by Just One on May 9, 2007 16:03:04 GMT -5
Interesting to note that in the article and the news both conveyed that police have investigated the group and have found no evidence of criminal activity or wrong doing...that being said, what is it that LS is really trying to do? Grind an axe?
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Post by bb marc on May 10, 2007 13:13:33 GMT -5
yes, because we all know that the police force and the law are realy effective as a moral guide on right and wrong. so if the law says it is ok, then it must be!
besides your argument is based on a falicy in logic. your logic is since no criminal activity was found that adressed certain problems within midtown, hence midtown is absolved of any whrongdoing whatsoever.
besides lets assume that LS has a ax to grind, lets also assume that midtown is a cult (which is what more people than just LS are saying), cults are bad (we are assuming this as well, I will propose evedance later if neccisary) how does LS having an ax to grind make midtown not a cult?
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Post by RD on May 10, 2007 22:52:21 GMT -5
From: St. Patrick's Sent: Wed May 09 2007 Subject: An Important Message From St. Patrick's May 9, 2007 Dear Members of the St. Patrick's Church and Day School Community: Last night, Channels 5 and 7 reported on a story involving a group that rents space in St. Patrick's Church on Sunday nights. The report follows an article last week in Newsweek about the same group, Midtown AA. The reports have focused on allegations that Midtown, a group associated with Alcoholics Anonymous, is what former members have told Newsweek is a "coercive, cultlike group." The Newsweek article did not identify St. Patrick's Church by name, but an accompanying photograph showed an exterior shot of the church. The Channel 7 report - which included interviews and film footage shot across the street on the property of George Washington University's Mount Vernon Campus - mentioned St. Patrick's Church by name and showed exterior footage of the church. The church leadership - including the xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, the Junior and Senior Wardens, and other church officers - has led St. Patrick's consideration of the issues presented by these allegations against Midtown AA. Representatives of the Episcopal Diocese of Washington have participated in these conversations, as well. The church leadership has also kept Day School Board Chair xxxxxxxx and Head of School xxxxxxxxxx apprised of the investigation they have launched of Midtown's activities and welcomed their participation in the ongoing conversation. St. Patrick's Church has historically made its facilities available in the evenings to groups associated with Alcoholics Anonymous, believing that AA's valuable work is consistent with the church's mission. In writing to you today, we want to assure you that there is a considerable distance between Midtown AA's use of St. Patrick's facilities - and there appears to be no suggestion that any of the alleged activities have occurred on St. Patrick's property - and the presence of your children and you at St. Patrick's School and/or in regular activities at the Church. That said, we also want to inform you that St. Patrick's Church and Midtown AA have agreed that Midtown AA will not meet at St. Patrick's until we complete the appropriate investigation. We will keep you informed of future developments in this matter. Please do not hesitate to contact either one of us with your questions, comments, or concerns. Our best to you, xxxxxxxxxxx, Rector xxxxxxxxx, Head of School
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Post by The Cult on May 11, 2007 15:39:42 GMT -5
Cult –
A group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc
Cult –
Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.
Has sad and unnerving as it may be for many of us to accept, it is now overwhelmingly clear that there is an obsessive, malignant cult alive in the area. Perhaps you’ve heard them at a meeting, or maybe you’ve read one of their e-mails.
You can tell them apart from non-cult members by the way they talk. They always speak in a hysteric manner which is full of hate and anger. Their “arguments” are base in gossip and conjecture while preying on peoples deep seeded fears through overly emotional public appeals. They are relentlessly. They are obsessive. They are devoted to one thing… the fall of Midtown.
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Post by bb marc on May 11, 2007 17:18:16 GMT -5
now that’s an interesting definition, I prefer the one used by sociologist that actually give us information about what a cult is (I really wish people would do research before spewing crap out their mouth). A Cult has several factors:
1. centralized and hierarchical leadership: it is well known that Mike Q has established a hierarchy of sponsorship that ends with him, FOM has no such structure nor does AA.
2. Statement of some special powers or divinely inspired purpose that is only possible through the leader/hierarchy: while AA literature clearly states that we are not the holders of some special sobriety powers just one vehicle for it, Midtown tells its members that they will probably get drunk if they ever leave the Midtown hierarchy because that will separate them from Mike Q’s leadership which is the only way to truly get sober.
3. Hidden agenda or presenting some information about the group, while withholding other tenants until a member becomes better indoctrinated: all of AA’s steps, principals and organizational information is available to anyone at anytime. In addition there are open meetings that allow outside members access to all of AA’s workings. Home group meetings are also open to the public so anyone can see everything that goes on inside AA. All the literature available about Midtown states it follows AA “with a few additional traditions that occur within any AA group” however it occurs to anyone participating that there are many articles that differ entirely from AA but you only learn that once you get a Midtown Sponsor which is required to become part of the Midtown group. Then as you move up the hierarchy you learn the other tenets of Midtown.
4. coercive or brainwashing techniques: midtown slowly separates its members from society, moving them in with midtown people, asking them to go to midtown meetings only, giving them jobs with other midtown people, going to midtown sponsored social events, midtown boyfriend/girlfriend. And once they are completely isolated they do the same thing to other newcomers.
These examples are by no means a complete list. But it does give tangible examples to reference the application of the rules to make something a cult. FOM is not a cult. AA is not a cult.
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Post by capitalistpig on May 11, 2007 17:35:26 GMT -5
Nicely put "the cult", I see you are a true scholar. Well, anyways..... have fun looking for a new church not a very nice person
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Post by RD on May 11, 2007 21:20:22 GMT -5
NBC News4 report on Midtown suspension from St Patricks here: www.nbc4.com/news/13306389/detail.htmlWASHINGTON -- Officials of a prominent church in Northwest Washington said the church has barred an Alcoholics Anonymous group from meeting on its property pending the outcome of an investigation. The group, called Midtown AA, has come under scrutiny for unusual practices in the past. Many of the former members have described the group as a cult. One woman, a former member of Midtown AA, claims she was pressured to have sex as a teenager with the leader of an Alcoholics Anonymous group called Midtown. Kathy* said that at the time she was 17 and the group leader was 56. She said members told her to engage in sex with him because it would increase her chances of being sober, and that she would be more accepted in the group. An article about Midtown was featured in Newsweek Magazine. The article stated that the group sexually exploited members and pressured them to do unusual tasks. David* said he was a member of Midtown for about a year. ”I would say that Midtown is a shiny apple with a rotten core," he said. Laura* said that while she attended meetings there, members advised her not to take her anti-depression medicine. She said she ended up being suicidal. "Then they still were trying to convince me that I didn't need to be on medication," she said. "There's a lot of sex stuff, but beyond that there's so much mind control and so much fear. I was constantly under a state of fear," said Kathy. Midtown AA met in the basement of the Church of the Pilgrims in Northwest Washington for more than a decade, News4's Pat Collins reported. The group would meet on Sunday nights at 8. Collins said that Midtown was reportedly the largest Alcoholics Anonymous group for young people on the east coast. Church officials said they launched an investigation into the group's conduct last year after they learned of the allegations. A short time later, Midtown leaders informed the church the group was leaving, saying the meeting place had gotten too small, officials said. Midtown moved its meetings to St. Patrick's in Northwest. This week, the church sent a letter to parishioners that said Midtown AA would "no longer meet at St. Patrick's until we complete the appropriate investigation," Collins reported. The current leader of Midtown did not respond to calls or letters from News4. D.C. police and the city's prosecutor's office said they are unaware of any active investigation into Midtown. The national office of Alcoholics Anonymous said that each group is autonomous and follows its own conscience.
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Post by capitalistpig on May 12, 2007 8:33:03 GMT -5
Church -noun ---- A place midtown gets kicked out of
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Post by Frederick on May 14, 2007 8:41:57 GMT -5
I think you'll recognize some of the following mind control tactics or methods at work in the Q group. These eight methods are able to change the minds of individuals without their knowledge when executed well. The leadership in the Q has used these types of methods so exploit young kids sexually, financially and basically to wield complete power and control over their lives.
Milieu Control: This involves the control of information and communication both within the environment and, ultimately, within the individual, resulting in a significant degree of isolation from society at large.
Mystical Manipulation: There is manipulation of experiences that appear spontaneous but in fact were planned and orchestrated by the group or its leaders in order to demonstrate divine authority or spiritual advancement or some special gift or talent that will then allow the leader to reinterpret events, scripture, and experiences as he or she wishes.
Demand for Purity: The world is viewed as black and white and the members are constantly exhorted to conform to the ideology of the group and strive for perfection. The induction of guilt and/or shame is a powerful control device used here.
Confession: Sins, as defined by the group, are to be confessed either to a personal monitor or publicly to the group. There is no confidentiality; members' "sins," "attitudes," and "faults" are discussed and exploited by the leaders.
Sacred Science: The group's doctrine or ideology is considered to be the ultimate Truth, beyond all questioning or dispute. Truth is not to be found outside the group. The leader, as the spokesperson for God or for all humanity, is likewise above criticism.
Loading the Language: The group interprets or uses words and phrases in new ways so that often the outside world does not understand. This jargon consists of thought-terminating clichés, which serve to alter members' thought processes to conform to the group's way of thinking.
Doctrine over person: Member's personal experiences are subordinated to the sacred science and any contrary experiences must be denied or reinterpreted to fit the ideology of the group.
Dispensing of existence: The group has the prerogative to decide who has the right to exist and who does not. This is usually not literal but means that those in the outside world are not saved, unenlightened, unconscious and they must be converted to the group's ideology. If they do not join the group or are critical of the group, then they must be rejected by the members. Thus, the outside world loses all credibility. In conjunction, should any member leave the group, he or she must be rejected also.
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Post by Frederick on May 14, 2007 8:44:36 GMT -5
Here are additional conditions for succesful mind control and coercion.
I think you'll recognize some of these at work in the Q group as well
Keep the person unaware of what is going on and how she or he is being changed a step at a time.
Potential new members are led, step by step, through a behavioral-change program without being aware of the final agenda or full content of the group. The goal may be to make them deployable agents for the leadership, to get them to buy more courses, or get them to make a deeper commitment, depending on the leader's aim and desires.
Control the person's social and/or physical environment; especially control the person's time. Through various methods, newer members are kept busy and led to think about the group and its content during as much of their waking time as possible.
Systematically create a sense of powerlessness in the person: This is accomplished by getting members away from the normal social support group for a period of time and into an environment where the majority of people are already group members. The members serve as models of the attitudes and behaviors of the group and speak an in- group language. Strip members of their main occupation (quit jobs, drop out of school) or source of income or have them turn over their income (or the majority of) to the group. Once stripped of your usual support network, your confidence in your own perception erodes. As your sense of powerlessness increases, your good judgment and understanding of the world are diminished. (ordinary view of reality is destabilized) As group attacks your previous worldview, it causes you distress and inner confusion; yet you are not allowed to speak about this confusion or object to it -- leadership suppresses questions and counters resistance. This process is speeded up if you are kept tired -- the cult will keep you constantly busy.
Manipulate a system of rewards, punishments and experiences in such a way as to inhibit behavior that reflects the person's former social identity.
Manipulation of experiences can be accomplished through various methods of trance induction, including leaders using such techniques as paced speaking patterns, guided imagery, chanting, long prayer sessions or lectures, and lengthy meditation sessions. Your old beliefs and patterns of behavior are defined as irrelevant or evil. Leadership wants these old patterns eliminated, so the member must suppress them. Members get positive feedback for conforming to the group's beliefs and behaviors and negative feedback for old beliefs and behavior.
Manipulate a system of rewards, punishments, and experiences in order to promote learning the group's ideology or belief system and group-approved behaviors. Good behavior, demonstrating an understanding and acceptance of the group's beliefs, and compliance are rewarded while questioning, expressing doubts or criticizing are met with disapproval, redress and possible rejection. If one expresses a question, he or she is made to feel that there is something inherently wrong with them to be questioning. The only feedback members get is from the group, they become totally dependent upon the rewards given by those who control the environment. Members must learn varying amounts of new information about the beliefs of the group and the behaviors expected by the group.
The more complicated and filled with contradictions the new system in and the more difficult it is to learn, the more effective the conversion process will be. Esteem and affection from peers is very important to new recruits. Approval comes from having the new member's behaviors and thought patterns conform to the models (members). Members' relationship with peers is threatened whenever they fail to learn or display new behaviors. Over time, the easy solution to the insecurity generated by the difficulties of learning the new system is to inhibit any display of doubts -- new recruits simply acquiesce, affirm and act as if they do understand and accept the new ideology.
Put forth a closed system of logic and an authoritarian structure that permits no feedback and refuses to be modified except by leadership approval or executive order. The group has a top-down, pyramid structure. The leaders must have verbal ways of never losing.
Members are not allowed to question, criticize or complain -- if they do, the leaders allege that the member is defective -- not the organization or the beliefs. The individual is always wrong -- the system, its leaders and its belief are always right. Conversion or remolding of the individual member happens in a closed system. As members learn to modify their behavior in order to be accepted in this closed system, they change -- begin to speak the language -- which serves to further isolate them from their prior beliefs and behaviors.
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Post by RD on May 14, 2007 21:17:12 GMT -5
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