|
Post by concerned on May 15, 2007 8:18:43 GMT -5
How is any of this news? Nobody in AA (who knows the traditions) or anybody outside of AA gives a nuts!
People who aren't in AA or don't have family members in AA don't spend ANY time thinking about AA. I'm not sure what you're really going for here. Will you be happy if all of the MG members drink and die? I'm sure there are many there that have had their lives turned around. This is truly unfortunate.
|
|
|
Post by RD on May 15, 2007 8:30:47 GMT -5
The society of which we're all citizens does have an interest in coercive cults that prey on kids. If you think that people committing felonies are protected by AA traditions you're wrong. Learn to think instead of react.
|
|
|
Post by RD on May 15, 2007 8:36:43 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by bbmarc on May 15, 2007 15:20:20 GMT -5
To conserned guest, no one wants anyone to drink and die. As I have already pointed out in my post defining a cult, members of Midtown use that threat to controll its members. "if midtown collapses you will drink and die" the hidden message is that without the midtown hiarchy you will be seperated from Mike Q's leadership, see rule #2, and without his direction you will be unable to work a program of recovery, since that is the only true way to stay sober (since Mike Q has special insight into recovery that is not avalible anywhere elce). this is directly contrary to many sections of AA literature, spacificly the Big Book. I am told that I can get sober regardless of anyone "Burn the idea into the consciousness of every man that he can get well regardless of anyone"(p. 98). I am also told that I can not be sober untill I rely on God (of my understanding) alone "We simply do not stop drinking so long as we place dependance upon other people ahead of dependence on God." Unless Mike Q and Midtown is in fact your creator...you can stay sober without them if you work a program as outlined in the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous. Baced on my experience with Midtown, they seem to have never read page 101 of the Big Book (or it is one of those segestions that Mike Q has found to be flawed) "in our belief any scheme of combating alcoholism which proposes to shield the sick man from temptation is doomed to failure" here is a short list that seemed reminant of freedoms that Midtown does not grant its members "[assuming we are spiritually fit, we can do all sorts of things alcoholics are not supposed to do. People have said]...we must not go where liquor is served; we must not have it in our homes; we must shun friends who drink; we must avoid moving pictures which show drinking sscenes; we must not go into bars; our friends must hide their bottles if we go to their houses; we musn't think or be reminded about alcohol at all." these are things I have heard members of Midtown say they must shild themselves from...I work a program where I am able to do everything stated above as long as I remain spiritualy fit. Who is Mike Q's sponsor?...I just have been wondering for quite a while. If it is God...well I did that once, it almost killed me. Funny you should mention traditions. I was thinking of tradition 2, 3, 6, 8, 9, and 10 and how midtown has a lack of understanding of all of those (if you don't believe so, see the inner workings of the group...if you are high enough in the hirarchy to do so(tradition 2, and 9)). we are not breaking tradition 4 and 11. no one has broken their anonymity on the level of press radio or film in regards to AA, and the dealings of Midtown are affecting AA as a whole (people in california have been using midtown as a comperison for years to show that the West Coast group is not in fact a cult, which it isn't). besides the people who adress the news are representing themselves as former members of Midtown, not as spokespersons of AA. just because I happen to be sober dosn't mean I have to be mute whenever somthing is harming our children. selling them into sexual relationships for selfish perposes by child molestors, and using them to finance the lazyness of a few individuals so those people can go to ocian city and Jamaca and never realy work, and manipulating them through fear and brainwashing tactics to feed their already inflated ego. That is in fact newsworthy. once Mike Q gives the order to actualy kill someone he will be on par with charles manson (and like manson, he won't be there when it happens).
Do they tell you who to talk to, do they tell you how to act, are you reading this page under orders from your sponsor so you can attack us?
are you afraid of your own life? do you cry at night because you arn't doing enough to stay sober? when you are hanging out with your friends in midtown do you keep a "really happy face" so that they don't question your sobriaty?...are you having sex because your sponsor told you to?
No one wants to belong to a cult, they probably tell you that a cult is just a group of people who share a common ideology, that is not true. compare the posts here to what you see and take controll back. you don't have to drink, AA is here.
|
|
|
Post by concerned on May 15, 2007 16:39:19 GMT -5
In response:
But its not like you're approaching members of the group and asking them if they'd like help. Instead, your breaking into their emails, egging they're houses, getting them kicked out of churches, and going to the news. How is that aimed at helping them?
|
|
|
Post by bbmarc on May 15, 2007 17:09:26 GMT -5
so you also admit Midtown is a problem. We (AA, not FOM) has offered a message of hope to everyone who suffers from alcoholism. and AA thrives in DC regardless of the (now 16) midtown meetings. Those other meetings are avalible to anyone who wants to stay sober for alcoholism, regardless of past association with Midtown (tradition 3). Since many past members have broken away, the cult isn't killing people who defect yet.
FOM has a singleness of perpose, which is to expose the truth behind the Midtown structure that hides under the name of AA. it just happens that the truth is so newsworthy that the media has taken hold of it and broadcast it to the world. it also happens that because of the behavior of the cult, Churches don't want them to meet there. FOM dosn't support Eggings or E-mail hackings so you can't pin that on us (although I do think that karma may have somthing to do with those, you can't abuse thousands of people without having a few of those retaliate). in short it seems to me that you just want us to stop talking because...no you didn't give us any reasons. you just want us to help you cover up the message that Midtown is a cult that steals your childrens innocence.
|
|
|
Post by RD on May 15, 2007 19:05:47 GMT -5
"getting them kicked out of churches"
Their behavior is getting them kicked out of churches, now that attention has been drawn to it.
|
|
|
Post by Concerned on May 16, 2007 7:58:33 GMT -5
For the record, there are no "innocent children" coming into AA. Nobody comes to AA because they are perfect, so to hold individual AA members to some golden standard is ridiculous. Also, I don't doubt that members of Midtown have done messed up things, just like FOM members have. However, I've been to their meetings and none of the alleged sex cult activity is going on at the churches--so why does should AA or the churches care what goes on in their private lives? It seems like an outside issue that should be brought up with the individuals, not AA as a whole. Please remember that we all come here quite broken. Don't discount the good that I've seen done by the group because of a few members actions.
|
|
|
Post by Betsy on May 16, 2007 9:14:32 GMT -5
I beg to differ with you on some issues. There have been, and we have reason to believe that Midtown mem ???bers have had sex in the churches. One beiing in the church on Connecticut Avenue, where they have their Thursday meting called "Choir." It was the budding joke a few yrs ago that 2 of the members had sex behind the organ upstairs. There were also reports of members having sex at Church of the Pilgrams. I believe they got kicked out of another church a year or so ago because a members got caught having sex in the church parking lot. See.. this information is information that many don't know. Watch yourself! Unless you know all of the facts you can't draw to a real and rational conclusion.
|
|
|
Post by RD on May 16, 2007 9:18:29 GMT -5
For the record, there are no "innocent children" coming into AA. For the record, there are minor children coming into AA and they are protected from sexual exploitation by law if not by the traditions of the Midtown Group. Please note that the practices and philosophy of Midtown or AA have no standing before the courts and does not have to be taken into account by the churches or other organizations who rent space to meetings. It's perfectly appropriate for them to be more concerned with protecting minors than with some AA member's idiosyncratic definition of what is and isn't an outside issue.
|
|
|
Post by Betsy on May 16, 2007 9:45:50 GMT -5
Thank you! Finally someone states the "Absolute Truth." By law a minor is protected from this. However, they don't seem to be because AA wants to turn their backs,hide behind "Traditions" and keep Midtown crimes a secret. Many have known about this for years. Now that so many have been injured, they have finally taken action. Exposing it to the media has helped because more and more people are coming forward. I expect the police will soon have someone that will testify. Until then..the minor will continue to be "Unprotected."
|
|
|
Post by bbmarc on May 16, 2007 10:40:36 GMT -5
Your argument about the phrase "innocent children" seems redundant. So because people arnt innocent, therefore my whole argument is flawed?
And at what point does midtown need to be stoped. Is it when they actualy commit the act, or is it when they are staking out individuals to "rape" in the meetings.
It is obvious that you are part of Midtown (you make references to eggings, which only people in DC would be aware of, and you note e-mail hackings which only people involved in Midtown would know about. if my e-mail was hacked, only my friends would find out while I pregnant doged about it). From this we know that you are part of Mike Q's network. *aside* by the way, what I am doing right now is called an ad-hominum falicy in logic. you use falicies so much, you should be familiar with them. (that was another ad-hominum in case you where wondering). *end aside* but as part of Mike Q's network you have stated that the things we are arguing are in fact happening:
"so why does should AA or the churches care what goes on in their private lives? It seems like an outside issue that should be brought up with the individuals, not AA as a whole. ... Don't discount the good that I've seen done by the group because of a few members actions."
all your arguments have been geared to minimise what is happening within midtown, not to claim that our observations of what happens inside midtown is flawed. as an internal observer, you had the oppertunity to state that we where wrong in our claims, you could have stated that Mike Q has a sponsor...dosn't have sex with 14 year old girls...dosn't have an elaberate network set up...dosn't take money out of the midtown basket to support his own lazyness...dosn't dictate who dates whom...dosn't use coersive tecneques that controll the members of midtown...dosn't work under the guise of AA while breaking many traditions...etc. but instead you stated that we just shouldn't talk about what was going on, and made a vegue reference to the traditions. your silence shows us that what we say is true (policy rules).
so to answer your ultimate question, I don't have any problem with a group of people who follow the traditions of AA reaching their hand out to suffering alcoholics for the singleness of perpose to help them recover from alcoholism...and if those people choose to call themselves Midtown thats fine. all we are fighting against is a group of people who call themselves AA who use meetings for multipal perposes which include...sexual explotation of mentaly unstable individuals (some of whom are underage/minors), raising of funds for unspecified perposes and to give money to their leaders to pay them for sponsorship of the orgonization, HAVING LEADERS!!, orgonising a hirearchial structure that is based not on helping people stay sober but rather controll, using manipulative tecqunecs to controll people who come into the group, isolating members from all influence outside the group, brainwashing, enslaving individuals under the guise of "service work" (mowing a lawn only helps you stay sober if it is your own lawn, self supporting and all that). (when will Mike Q. become a self supporting alcoholic...he can't even pay for his own car)
seeing as the other requirement for membership in Midtown (other than stop drinking) is that you have to have a midtown sponsor...and all midtown sponsors end at Mike Q. I don't think that these are the actions of a few individuals but rather actions that are supported by the entire group in one way or another. thus the whole structure needs to fall.
Ps. tell Mike that I want my $10 back, I put money in the basket once thinking it was an AA meeting.
|
|
|
Post by bbmarc on May 16, 2007 13:44:41 GMT -5
As an aside, mabie we should use the phrase "I want my $2" as an anti Q slogen a-la "better off dead"
|
|
|
Post by parent on May 16, 2007 16:22:53 GMT -5
BB, Silence does not mean what you and the rest of the people on FOM are saying is true. In fact many of the people here have never been to midtown, and have no idea what happens there. I've been there to support a family member and gotten to know several of them, and I couldn't be happier about the group.
|
|
|
Post by guest on May 16, 2007 16:59:37 GMT -5
So far, I have not read anyone denying that adult males in the Midtown Group have sexual relationships with teenage girls who are also in the group.
The reason is that it cannot be denied - I and too many others know that this has been going on for years.
Please, focus on this issue- do you deny it?
|
|