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Post by notinmybackyard on Jul 23, 2007 20:17:24 GMT -5
Kudos to Marc Fisher. I thought he did an excellent job on yesterday's article. What did you think?
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Post by AnExQ on Jul 23, 2007 23:13:49 GMT -5
Fisher did a great job. The fact that it was on the front page of the Sunday paper just blows me away. If this doesnt get the attention of more people I dont know what will. NY has to intervene, old timers need to intervene WAIA needs the help of local AA'ers. More needs to be done and I am so grateful to all who are committed to the cause !!
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Post by notmarcfisher on Jul 24, 2007 0:52:05 GMT -5
There is an interesting link here. David Andrukonis, a sometimes columnist for USA Today, is a staunch and avid critic of midtown, and, being a disgruntled and former midtown member, enlisted both Marc Fisher and Nick Summers (they all belong to a mommas-little-darlin-daddys-got-me-a-trust-fund columnist club), to write the articles. There seems to be nothing new in Marcs article except it does seem that Kristin's story of her experience at midtown gets worse and worse. One thing I don't understand, if all of the horrible things that she reports did happen to her, why does she end the article with the flaccid statement indicating that she "just wasted 8 years of her life"? If all the horrible things did happen, wouldn't her life be ruined or permanently stained by her experience of being passed around from man to man? Was there a better group to be passed around from man-to-man in, like an 'al qaeda' training camp? You wouldn't have to delve to deep into her history to find out about her credibility, or lack there of. Anyone who steals from and habitually lies to their parents like her is capable of saying just about anything to anyone.
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Post by 20007 on Jul 24, 2007 10:36:27 GMT -5
^ Sounds like the article really got to you, the truth hurts doesn't it. Oh, and I wouldn't speak about trust funds in that way either--you sound jealous.
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Post by Betsy on Jul 24, 2007 12:20:03 GMT -5
In the non-AA world, feelings are not given much weight when it comes to criminal behavior. Even though the girls in the article were over the legal limit (17) and cannot procecute, does not mean that this behavior can or will be accepted by society. Media broadcast and journalism have many attorneys that are involved in articles such as these. I doubt that Marc Fisher would put his successful journalism career on the line without a lot of research. As for Newsweek..ditto. And.. what is your excuse for Pat Collins Channel 4? Oh I guess he knew someone with a resentment too? Do you see how idiotic this sounds?
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Post by Anon on Jul 25, 2007 9:27:05 GMT -5
So why do you think SO MANY ex-members, journalists, and other various "outsiders" ALL have a personal ax to grind with mid-town?
Doesn't it seem odd that all these various people are critical of mid-town and Q simply b/c they have resentments, jealousy, or personal vendettas?
That's a whole lot of coincidence.
It's odd, too, b/c I've been to lots of different groups and we don't seem to have journalists out to get us. Or ex-members. Or police investigations. Or really, any kind of cloud of suscipicion hanging over us.
How do you justify that?
What's that saying? "If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck."
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Post by Betsy on Jul 25, 2007 9:52:38 GMT -5
I don't think anyone has a personal axe to grind. I think that the people that have been able to leave the group and find out how Alcoholics Anonymous really works, have realized that they were involved with a cult. The tip if the iceberg has only been touched. I can only think of a few that may be jealous of the leader and that would probably be the leutenants. To expose a cult is perfectly normal for those who have gotten out. They want to protect others from getting sucked in to something so distructive. More will be revealed! The Post and local stations could not possibly cover everything in the time frame that they have. Stay tuned for more in depth coverage on "48-Hours Special Report." The funding and finances of this group haven't even been revealed. Some of the recent backround checks on members are enough for a story in itself.
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Post by Anon on Jul 25, 2007 10:08:09 GMT -5
You wouldn't have to delve to deep into her history to find out about her credibility, or lack there of. Anyone who steals from and habitually lies to their parents like her is capable of saying just about anything to anyone. This justification/rationalization/minimization would carry a lot more weight if her's was one lone voice crying, "Foul." But it's not. And if Q and his boys had heeded the many warnings of AA oldtimers of staying away from underage girls (in sponsorhip and social situations), perhaps these "un-credible tales" wouldn't be coming out. If you're a middle aged man who likes having underage girls, w/ a history of behavioral problems, in your home w/out their guardians, then what on earth do you expect it to look like to outsiders?? (Especially, if you have a long history of dating much younger women. Hard to convince folks that you're interests are purely paternalistic, you know?) If he's really a kindly older man who just truly wants to help the kids, why are SO MANY people "out to get him?" They told me in AA that if many of my personal relationships are troubled that perhaps the common denominator is ME. Why doesn't that apply to Q? What part of AA says, "Yes, you ARE a victim. It's everybody else. Keep doing what you're doing." So odd.
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Post by Anon on Jul 25, 2007 10:16:07 GMT -5
I don't think anyone has a personal axe to grind. Sorry, that was my point! It seems like that's what defenders (read, current members) of Q have to say in their defense: "Those people are just bitter." I'm wondering how they make sense of ALL these different people from so many different walks of life all having the same bitter tales to tell? That's a pretty big coincidence. So maybe it's not just that everyone's got an axe to grind, maybe there's some validity to what people are saying. I've had personal experience with members of this group and it is a sad state of affairs. Truly brainwashed, otherwise lovely people, caught up with a sick-o, believing that they're working a good program and not understanding why so many people criticize them.
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Post by amt on Jul 26, 2007 20:52:34 GMT -5
hind sight is 20/20 - you cant always see what you are in until your out - so what "kristin" seemed to be one way when she was in , and different when she was out it completely NORMAL and nothing to do with resentment. - my experiences, and i have many - this can and does happen - even in cults, aa and in the genral terms of life. you dont know what you have until it is gone. same applies - you dont what your in until your out! also note - what kind of dumbass would follow and what what he has - not stable, not self supporting, not faithful, not honest. something to aspire to i guess - - getting away with it for 30 + years. also not - few (only men) stick around after they reach the age of 25 maybe 28 - its been almost 20 yrs. there is in fact an incredible life out side of MG, the Q group, or even AA (im not anti aa) you would be amazed at what life has to offer outside the walls and halls of church basements and neurotic self absorbed narcicist. because that is most of what is left in aa - sad but true. the farce of help another to save yourself is in fact the most selfish act - and that is the purpose of MG - all narcicist! and to speak of love - as if they know - but i guess - the limited exposure , would limit the understanding of love -
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Post by CXV on Jul 28, 2007 23:07:04 GMT -5
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Post by Duncan on Jul 31, 2007 22:10:54 GMT -5
I don't think anyone has a personal axe to grind. I think that the people that have been able to leave the group and find out how Alcoholics Anonymous really works, have realized that they were involved with a cult. The tip if the iceberg has only been touched. I can only think of a few that may be jealous of the leader and that would probably be the leutenants. To expose a cult is perfectly normal for those who have gotten out. They want to protect others from getting sucked in to something so distructive. More will be revealed! The Post and local stations could not possibly cover everything in the time frame that they have. Stay tuned for more in depth coverage on "48-Hours Special Report." The funding and finances of this group haven't even been revealed. Some of the recent backround checks on members are enough for a story in itself. Betsy, sorry for quoting all this but my first time using this board. What is 48-Hours Special Report? Is this something on TV? I don't watch very much...thanks. I'm happy to find this board where these things can be discussed. I think the Midtown situation is absolutely horrifying and want to help out.
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Post by Duncan on Jul 31, 2007 22:14:25 GMT -5
Kudos to Marc Fisher. I thought he did an excellent job on yesterday's article. What did you think? I think Marc Fisher did a great job. Whoever is maintaining this board should remove the garbled looking post towards the bottom of this page. It is at best useless and at worst, a destructive virus.
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Post by notinmybackyard on Aug 2, 2007 15:06:17 GMT -5
The administrator (Syddv) hasn't logged on since Dec. so I'm not sure that anyone is maintaining it. I agree with your complaint about the garbles, just don't know how to make it free of the adds. I'm open to any suggestions as I think this provides a place for discussion.
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Post by Concern on Aug 6, 2007 1:00:53 GMT -5
Where in the Big Book does it say to get a sponsor? Where in the steps does it say to get a sponsor? Where in the Traditions of A.A. does it say to get a sponsor? IT DOSENT! The outside sponsor system S.S is self promoting using fear, and ones own lack of discipline to promote the S.S. I have seen more people die leaning on a the system for guidance and protection and the ones that follow A.A’s message that God could and would if sought get a reprieve - People places and things will easily divert us and the outside sponsorship craze has. A.A.’S FELLOWSHIP IS A “SIMPLE SUGGESTED PROGRAM” THE SPONSORSHIP SYSTEM. S.S. HAS TURNED INTO A “PROGRAM OF SUGGESTIONS” A FOLLOW-SHIP. Today Bill .W is turning over in his grave Insanity of an alcoholic– The effects of drinking is the inability to think and function on ones own in the world around them. This is in a drunk state where someone needed to sponsor another just to get them to A.A. it was to end there and A.A’s FELLOWSHIP Careers were responsible not a FOLLOW-SHIP of the S.S A sponsor, finds a wet one who fits the above criteria as they could be found in insane asylums before the hospitals started the sponsorship system needed to help out., once found that person would need to sponsored (because they were not able to think or function ) and taken them through the steps and then bringing them to A.A. not ever telling them what to do in A.A., just letting them know they needed to help another drunk to A.A.
The sponsorship system is needed and created for hospital admittance purposes for the alcoholic who still suffered or whoever was unable at the time. Not being mentioned in the 164 pages of the program and clearly seen in hospitals, How did the outside sponsorship system get married to A.A.? Or it can be said, How did it get out of the hospital and insane asylums? The Sponsorship system in hospitals and insane asylums worked great but in A.A. it goes against the principles of the program itself. Very CONTROLversial which creates dependency on another person place or thing which is not God as many believe. The outside sponsorship system in A.A. can only weaken a alcoholics spirit. When one understands and becomes part of A.A. they need not be diverted by other dependencies. CAME TO BELIEVE “THAT” A POWER WILL RESTORE US TO SANITY not “NOT CAME TO “BELIVE” IN A POWER. AND “THAT” ONE IS GOD MAY YOU FIND HIM NOW. May the spirit of the fellowship be with you instead of a dependency. A.A.’s preamble and A.A as a whole work just great here thank you. Bottom line how to be responsible for an alcoholic, find one that is incoherent and sponsor Him or Her just make sure A.A. IS THERE TO HELP HIM and today save them from the out of control S.S.
The sponsorships systems job is to bring an alcoholic to A.A. from the outside not hider the soul of an alcoholic while they are sober inside. It is only by spiritual principles one needs to follow and that my friend begins souly WITHIN and it also ends within. Don’t worry you will have a sobriety date weather it be on a sugar coated cake or engraved in stone on a grave. The Traditions of A.A were being formed in 1946 to stop the self proclaimed system from destroying A.A,. Clarence S promotional pamphlet on the Sponsorship System in 1944 as CLARANCE S, DECLARED HIMSELF “THE FATHER OF A.A”. and today that has come true.
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